Talk:Cleveland Browns

Semi-protected edit request on 10 January 2017

TheChiefBear (talk) 17:05, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. JTP ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:25, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Cleveland Browns

Just to clarify Yesterday I had a conversation(by or via Chat) with a Cleveland Browns guy on the Official Cleveland Browns website. And I asked him if the Cleveland Browns is a (new) Franchise starting in 1999. And his answered was YES. It is a NEW FRANCHISE. And of course they keep all the historical data from 1945 to 1995 (Records, Stanings, PlayOffs, etc.etc.) If you have any doubt regarding this answered I suggest you to ask( by or via Chat) to one of the guys of Cleveland Browns. Have a nice afternoon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.162.253.171 (talk) 20:46, 26 May 2017 (UTC)

I agree. If Wikipedia is going to be factual, there has to be separation between the original Browns (nee Ravens) and the 1999 expansion Browns (current). This article is very misleading.

There was a lengthy discussion about this several years ago. See it above at Talk:Cleveland Browns#Article should be split into Cleveland Browns (1946-1995) and Cleveland Browns. Bottom lines: First, a "chat with a Cleveland Browns guy" doesn't constitute a reliable source. Further, the opinion of a Browns media employee is just that: an opinion. Second, the NFL, Baltimore Ravens, Cleveland Browns, and Pro Football Hall of Fame all consider the current Cleveland Browns to be the franchise founded in 1946 while the Baltimore Ravens were established in 1996. This is also covered in Cleveland Browns relocation controversy. As far as records and team histories go, the Ravens start in 1996 and the Browns were officially suspended for three seasons, then "restocked" by way of an expansion draft, and resumed in 1999. Had another team moved to Cleveland before 1999, that team would've inherited the Browns' history as well. Yes, we all know in reality, the Browns moved to Baltimore in 1996, but legally, that's not how the NFL records it with stats. In short, the Browns franchise never moved; the team (players and personnel) moved to Baltimore and Modell was awarded a new franchise and the Browns franchise remained in Cleveland as a trust. In other cases of teams moving, records, colors, etc. all went with the team (i.e. the franchise moved too, like with the Raiders, Rams, Chargers, and even in rebranding cases like the Oilers becoming the Titans). --JonRidinger (talk) 04:26, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Suggestion for edit to Browns-Lions Rivalry Section, and a new section for 2017 0-16 season.

This section should be revised to update that both teams have had a 0-16 season. The Lions went winless in 2008 and the Browns later did so in 2017. Many fans from both teams are trying to compare these teams to try to determine who is worse. They are split between the 2017 Browns and the 2008 Lions. Another suggested edit for a new section in the main article would be to mention the 0-16 season and the fan-made parade that followed. Gboss314159 (talk) 03:21, 10 January 2018 (UTC)

Not the only team named after a person

It says, "[the Browns] are the only team named after a person." That's not true: the Buffalo Bills are named after Buffalo Bill (aren't they?). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Thegoldenconciseencyclopediaofmammals (talk • contribs) 05:21, 27 February 2018 (UTC)

Do you have reliable source for this? 107.0.17.203 (talk) 13:40, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Please edit offensive quality control

Hey today Tyler Tettleton was names offensive quality control coach, and I can’t wdit this page. Thanks! JakeTheCake1055 (talk) 02:49, 14 January 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 December 2020

Add 2020 as the Browns third winning season (2002, 2007, and 2020) Nascarfan170 (talk) 21:09, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

 Not done for now: Although it is certain that the Browns will finish with a winning record at this point, I think it may be better to wait until the regular season is over to add this to the article. I will let another editor review this request to gather their opinion. PlanetJuice ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:42, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Melmann 17:20, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 December 2020 (2)

Add 2020 to the list of winning seasons 2601:1C2:5280:BB40:8C4E:9C68:8A14:31BA (talk) 21:50, 6 December 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Melmann 17:18, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/browns/2020/12/06/cleveland-browns-tennessee-titans-score/3851539001/ 2600:1700:BCF1:8F0:0:0:0:7CB (talk) 19:09, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Commemorative logo

It appears the 75th anniversary commemorative logo cannot be included in this article, per WP:LOGO#Placement. The infobox it should be included on is the one for the 2021 season, since it is a logo specific to that season. The current wordmark is still the primary wordmark and should remain in the infobox here unless the team announces some kind of change to the overall logo & wordmark branding. The article on Cleveland.com indicates that is not the case. An example is the National Football League article, which has always kept the current NFL shield in the infobox. The NFL used a commemorative 100th season logo in 2019, and that is featured on the 2019 NFL season article. --JonRidinger (talk) 14:56, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

The 75 logo IS the team's primary logo for 2021, as it is anywhere and everywhere. Will it be the case for 2022 and beyond, probably not, but for '21, it most certainly is the case, and should be in the infobox (nobody ever said that a logo has to be for ever and ever). Vjmlhds (talk) 14:40, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Again, see the sources and other examples. It's usage in Browns social media doesn't mean it's the team's primary logo; teams and organizations have commemorative logos all the time and they get heavy usage on their social media outlets. The Browns did it back in 2006 and in 1999; their primary logo (the helmet) didn't change, but they had heavy use of the commemorative logo in media. None of the sources indicate the logo is a replacement of the main logo and all secondary sources like ESPN and Sportslogos.net continue to use the primary helmet logo, including the NFL on their website and at the recent draft. --JonRidinger (talk) 14:55, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Some battles are worth fighting - this ain't one of them. I'm done. Vjmlhds (talk) 18:34, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Unpopular opinion?: Bills and Broncos are not our rivals.

The Broncos I can almost understand. Obviously the 3 conference championship games we lost to them are a big part of our history. But outside of that four year span of 1986-89, they are just another AFC team like the Jets or Dolphins to us. And shouldn't a real rivalry be less one-sided? Sure, Browns-Ravens is pretty one sided, but there are so many more reasons why they are our rivals compared to the Broncos, and the Browns have a better record versus Baltimore than Denver.

Bills-Browns is such a reach to me. They've met one time in the playoffs and only 22 times since the NFL and AFL merged.

In my opinion, if you're going to include Denver and/or Buffalo, you HAVE to include Houston/Tennessee. They've played 68 times (more than 3 times as many games with Buffalo), with the Browns holding a close 36-32 advantage (compared to our pathetic 6-24 record versus Denver). They were our division rivals in 4 different decades in the AFC central, with lots of memorable games from the "Black 'n Blue" Glanville-Schottenheimer days. There was the 2014 incredible comeback win we had against them. The two game stretch in 2019 and 2020 was interesting. The Titans clobbered the Browns in Cleveland in 2019, followed by the Browns getting revenge in Nashville in 2020 while both teams were deep in the playoff hunt. I might get destroyed by the old heads who remember the Broncos defeats, I wasn't born until '91, but this is how I feel. Wpruitt31 (talk) 06:45, 30 August 2021 (UTC)

Denver is a historical rival and should absolutely remain on this page. The three AFC title games in the 80s are frequently brought up when the teams play each other even to this day. Also, one-sidedness is irrelevant in the scope of whether or not two teams are "rivals." Many well known rivalries are one sided. You bring up Browns-Ravens, and Navy-Notre Dame jumps to my mind.

Buffalo could be removed. All that's there is a poorly sourced short paragraph with half of it describing the Browns' games against the AAFC's Buffalo Bills who are not affiliated with the NFL Bills. You can certainly add Houston/Tennessee for the reasons you stated if it is properly sourced (including receiving non-routine coverage as a "rivalry"), though a large number of meetings between two teams does not constitute a rivalry. Frank Anchor^Talk 04:25, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

I understand where you're coming from about the Broncos. I guess to me it's that we HAD a rivalry with them, and now there just isn't one. To me it's pretty hard to call someone outside of your division a rival. Wpruitt31 (talk) 19:57, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

I agree re: Denver and it is described perfectly in the article "The Browns had a brief rivalry with the Denver Broncos..." and later "the short-lived rivalry..." Frank Anchor^Talk 16:18, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Uniform Numbers

Why are the numbers on the uniforms shown block numbers? In real life they are rounded, and this problem has been here since the browns changed their uniform to that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SteelerFan1933 (talk • contribs) 00:56, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Logo again

Just like last year's commemorative logo which was specific to the 2021 season, the Brownie logo being used on the field is just that: a secondary logo. It is not the team's primary logo (at least at this point), which is what the logo parameter is for in the infobox. The team's primary logo is still the orange helmet. -- JonRidinger (talk) 19:54, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

Not trying to give you a hard time or be argumentative, but you just can't discard the elf, especially that he's now front and center at midfield at First Energy Stadium.

Never said the helmet wasn't the main logo, but it isn't the ONLY logo either. The Browns basically have 3 logos now - the helmet, the elf, and the wordmark. The way I have it laid out features all 3. Don't need to remove the elf, as the way it's laid out in the infobox features all 3 logos

Vjmlhds 04:10, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

It's not discarding it as much as it is realizing how logos work for teams and on Wikipedia. Most teams have a "primary logo" and "secondary logos". The primary logo is what is used most often on official team sites, uniforms, social media, etc. The Browns' primary logo is the orange helmet and the infobox is for the primary logo, not for every logo. And the Browns have made no such announcement that this version of Brownie is a major secondary logo. That's beside the reality that the orange helmet remains the primary logo across multiple sources, including the NFL and the Browns themselves. Teams can, and often do, have multiple secondary logos, and the Browns are no different in that regard. The Cavs are another example of that, with multiple secondary logos, at least one of which you added to that article in the appropriate section.

Don't read too much into the center field logo since A) there hasn't been a center field logo for a few seasons, and B) the Browns have had a new field design in the 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, and now 2022 seasons. The Browns also routinely bring out historic logos like this, hence the regular usage of the other version of Brownie that appears on many licensed merchandise. As for the 1946 Brownie being used on the field this season, there is very little usage of him in Browns media outside the field announcement. I imagine we will be seeing more of him during the year, but that doesn't mean it suddenly becomes the featured primary logo on the Wikipedia article, any more than the other secondary logos for the Cavs are listed in the infobox on that article. ----JonRidinger (talk) 13:51, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Further, I have found no instances where an NFL Wikipedia article has a logo, helmet, and wordmark listed in the infobox. All have just logo and wordmark. It's also not unheard of to have a center field logo not be a team's primary logo. Ohio State's 'Block O' at Ohio Stadium and LSU's 'Eye of the Tiger' come to mind. Both are prominently displayed on their respective football fields, but neither is a primary logo, nor are they featured on their team's respective Wikipedia articles. Again, if the Browns make an announcement that they have made the running Brownie elf the primary logo, then by all means, update the article. But for now, no such announcement has been made and its usage on the field does not elevate it to primary logo status, which is what the infobox parameter is for. A case could be made to include the running elf in the 2022 Cleveland Browns article, though, much like how the 75th anniversary logo was used in 2021 Cleveland Browns. --JonRidinger (talk) 14:10, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Adding the line "Named after original coach and co-founder Paul Brown"

Who added that part in the article? Cause I don't rememberseeing that before. The King Gemini (talk) 01:40, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

Logo part 3

Just like last year for the center field design and the 75th anniversary logo in 2021, this new logo is not the primary logo. The Browns specifically refer to it as the "dawg logo". It's a secondary logo on par with the Brownie elf logos. There has been no announcement that this is the new primary logo and the infobox space is for the primary logo. The orange helmet is still the primary logo and should be labeled as such in the infobox. --17:09, 13 June 2023 (UTC) JonRidinger (talk) 17:09, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 January 2024

In the history section, change the following sentence:

   The Browns have only posted three winning seasons and two playoff appearances (2002, 2020) since returning to the NFL.

to the following:

   The Browns have only posted four winning seasons and three playoff appearances (2002, 2020, [[1]]) since returning to the NFL. Crepuscul1 (talk) 22:05, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

 Question: Are you asking for a wikilink to the page in the ref tag to be added? Shadow311 (talk) 22:07, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 01:06, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done: the Cleveland Browns made it to the playoffs this year, and Crepuscul1 wants the data in the history section to reflect that, like it already has in the lead section and infobox. I've also added a citation as a reference. Left guide (talk) 06:57, 22 January 2024 (UTC)

Helmets (current uniform)

Team just changed to white face masks permanantly. 2600:8806:910F:B300:6D14:C012:5969:9CC0 (talk) 03:37, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/fans/white-facemask

both "Logos" and "Uniforms" should be edited to reflect this; facemask details are pretty thin throughout the article METTAZASHI (talk) 16:10, 9 December 2024 (UTC)